Cheap vs Expensive LED

Burcusa

New Member
Hi all,

First post. I tried to see if there was something like this already going, but I have yet to find one. I would first like to thank everyone for all of the tips that I have learned through reading the posts.

I am starting up a 40 gal tank. I currently do a modified Berlin set-up... skimmer and live rock. I have had it going for about 4 months now and it is starting to come together and the chemistry has been super stable over the last month+. I have 1 Clarkii Clownfish, 1 emerald crab and 4 hermits. They all seem healthy and the nitrates are below 10 ppm. Have been doing 10 gal water changes every weekend and then just regular feedings. Eventually, I want to get into corals, but I am trying to limit my spending to less than $100/mo. I figure that this will keep me in the good graces of the budget and it will force me to take it slow.

Anyways, as I am planning ahead, I am starting to plan for my eventual leap into corals and have been researching LED lights. What I don't understand is the insane differences in prices. At Bulk Reef Supply, it seems like I need to spend at least $500 on my lights, but on Amazon, there are a ton of options in the neighborhood of $100. Then on the DIY side, it seems like I need to spend about $200 to get into adequate lighting via RapidLED.com. What gives? Obviously there is going to be some differences in aesthetics and functionality, but is it really that much of a difference? If you were to start now on the budget that I have outlined ~$100/mo, what would you do?
 

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
Welcome, you've come to a helpful place!

I'm no led expert on leds but I can grow a mean acro with leds so I can answer you in generalities.

Forget what you see on Amazon, I believe you're looking at name brand leds built for reefs or the DIY option. By name brand, I mean big companies and small companies that have built a good name. For instance radions and reefbreeder LEDs are both what I call name brand but on different ends of the "name brand" spectrum.

The thing about LEDs is they are only as good and/or reliable as their components and that's where the price difference comes in. Flexibility, spectrum, durability, drivers etc etc all matter. I won't get into the technical aspects as their are much smarter people on here that can help you.

Now the good part. You can buy cheaper LEDs now and seamlessly upgrade later. If your a DIY guy and don't mind an unfinished look or you're going to hide it in a hood, you can get quality components and do a less expensive build.
If looking for a plug and play, check out companies like reefbreeders, reef radiance and the such.

Read up on the components, that'll help you
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
welcomefish.gif


to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members
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Start a new tank thread & share your tank with us so we can follow along - we love pics :)

Here one great read...
So What's The Deal With These LEDs?
 

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Heh.. Glenn, you're too kind for continuing to plug that old thread :) It might be time to do a new write-up.

I'll answer your question first before I start spewing esoteric LED nonsense: if I were in your shoes, knowing your budget (and actually $100/mo is my aquarium budget too ;)) what would I do? I'd save up for 4 - 5 months and buy a quality light that will last. It sounds like you have enough light for now, and you could probably handle softies with whatever you have for the moment. I'd just hold out to get something worth buying.

The big difference between the $500 lights and the $100 lights is quality. The lights you see on Amazon for < $100 are good for providing light, but that's about it. It's not going to sustain tank life, and I'd really be curious to see some of the PAR that these things throw off (PAR = photosynthically available radiation, the stuff that corals use to grow.. hint: I'd bet it's low!). They'd light up your tank, but not much else. I wouldn't recommend the Amazon lights. In fact, I wouldn't recommend the $500 lights either. Not without doing your research. The lights by AI, EcoTech, NanoBox, Kessil, etc, are all great lights, but LED lights aren't quite like MH or T5s (basically throw them on your tank and you're good). You really need to research to make sure you're getting the right light with the features you want.

A lot has changed since LEDs were first put over tanks in the late 2000s. The price hasn't changed much, but what you're getting has improved. A LOT.

The first big difference is color balance. In the early days of aquarium LED lights, we essentially used two colors of LED: royal blue and cool white. You could sort of equate these temperatures to about 10,000K for the whites and actinics for the royal blues. These worked, and they still work today (the light I have over my tank is predominantly these two colors), but it wasn't without its issues. First, the cool white LEDs used in old fixtures were sort of flat. They didn't have a very wide range of colors in the warmer area of the color spectrum (think reds, greens, etc). This wasn't really a problem for growth, as the royal blues typically provided most of the PAR anyway, but the color balance was way off. To reefers who were used to using full spectrum MH or T5 fixtures, the colors of LED lights left a lot to be desired. Some were quite happy, but others were not. The good news is that most fixtures today come with warmer white LEDS (think in the 6,500K spectrum). These help reds and greens pop a little better. Some lights even come with dedicated red, UV, violet, or lime green LEDs. The color that people are getting from these lights is outstanding.

Sort of piggybacking on that is light output. Many of these early lights put out great PAR (stuff that grows corals), but since they were so directed and so efficient, they usually didn't throw out as much raw light as older fixtures. Again, this didn't harm the reef inhabitants, but to those used to more light, they were underwhelmed by LEDs. I'm not sure of any specific developments to fix this necessarily, but I think the inclusion of a wider array of color spectra in current day fixtures helps a lot. I also think that since a demand has surfaced for LED lights, a lot more people are in the game, and there has been a lot more R&D done. Since the market is more mature, I think there are a lot more quality offerings. The best option isn't just DIY anymore (although it's still a good one! More to come on that).

The second big difference is features. When LED lights first came onto the market, you had the ability to set the intensity of each color of light. Very cool. Today, the whole industry has shifted to automated lights. Many lights have such sophisticated controllers that allow you to choose which reef you want to mimic and the controller does it. It has the schedule of sun rises and sets preloaded for every day of the year on many reefs, and it will imitate them over your tank. No tweaking required. There are lots of options to tweak still, don't misunderstand me, but controllers today are so sophisticated it shocked me when I first started reading up on current offerings. Many controllers will now integrate with your wifi so you can control your light from anywhere in the world. I will say that I appreciate the sun schedules, but I'm not a huge fan of the wifi integration. If that's your thing, that's your thing.. it's just not mine. Too many things to go wrong.

The third big difference is selection. When I wrote that original post Glenn linked to, there were basically two choices in LED lights: DIY, or AquaIllumination. EcoTech was just coming to the market with the Radion. Now there's a dizzying array of LED lights available.. NanoBox is one of my personal favorites. Both form factor, features, and color spectrum is great. They even sell their LED modules for $55. $55! Fully controllable. Just add a power supply and drivers and you're up and running. Kessil also makes a very impressive light. It has great color spectrum, but an interesting optical setup that means a small pendant can cover a wide area. The AI Hydra is a great light as well. If you have a bit of a technical flare, I'd strongly recommend looking into buying a few of NanoBox's boards for $50. It's an unbelievable value if you know how to put it together.

If you're looking for something cheap to get you going, the best option would be to DIY with one of NanoBox's V3 LED boards. You could probably get yourself up and running for $180 with everything. The good news is that to add another board, all you'd probably need to do is buy another board and wire it up. The hardware you buy to get you going will support more boards, probably up to 4 in total if you spec your parts out right. You could also look into Par38 bulbs which screw into standard lamp sockets. The lighting spectrum isn't controllable, but you can add more fixtures as you have money. A NanoBox Duo might be enough for a standard 40g breeder and only costs $470. The Kessil lights are really neat to me, but you'd definitely need two for a 40g tank, and they're $400 or so each. If you don't mind something a little older, you could get a used previous generation LED light for around $200 - $300 on forums. They're not as pretty or as feature-rich, but the grow corals and will last a long time. AI sells their old Sol fixture refurbished on their site for $300 (at that point though, personally, I'd probably DIY a NanoBox, or save up for something else).

I don't like to think of reef aquarium purchases as "investments".. technically they're not making money, so they're just a purchase (pedantic, I know, but true). But, I will say that you're going to spend a lot more if you buy cheap now instead of just getting something that gives you some flexibility in your choices later on. So, I'd save up and get something good the first time. Any of the LED lights by the big companies are good.

Trust me, if you want it to grow corals, it has to be quality, and quality LED lights will last you a long time. You're buying a light that's going to last you for 10+ years. If you're in the hobby for the long haul, the $500 is worth it.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
The post by @chipmunkofdoom2 is excellent. Here are my additional thoughts.

With LED lighting you get what you pay for. There are reasons the major brands are more expensive than bargain brands. There are very valid reasons for going with each of the major brands, so check then out carefully. Don't be afraid to ask about them here.

As usual, always buy quality. It will last.

Always get enough fixtures. You'll find most pendant LED fixtures direct light straight down. This means a fixture will cover only about 18 inches or so. If you have a tank that is 24 inches long, you might cover that with one fixture, but if the tank was much longer you usually need 2 or 3 fixtures to get good lighting without dim ends.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Great write up Patrick & advise from all above!

Heh.. Glenn, you're too kind for continuing to plug that old thread :) It might be time to do a new write-up.

Your post (sticky) and all the links & replies... added - is still the best IMO RS has on the subject... we need to add your great reply above... to it too :nessie:

Patrick your sticky post (So what's the deal with these leds) starting my learning curve on leds when you wrote it back in early 2011, yearend 2015 I bought my 1st leds after 4 years of study & learning - I just Love them... your basic premises hold true today & as all above have stated save up, do research & get a quality light.

This post in cod thread has some great links...
So What's The Deal With These LEDs?

Here another great read
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

and finally for me, this post by Jeff @StevesLEDs ( now a RS sponsor) finally gave me to confidence to change out my 6 39 watt T5s in my 66 gallon tank to leds (I was having great success with T5 so I was slow to want to make a change)

So What's The Deal With These LEDs?

http://www.stevesleds.com/

Lots of great options in leds now in 2016, you won't go wrong with the buying quality that will last for years.

Hope something here helps... just don't get cheap under powered leds

If you can DIY - Quality can be built starting at like $149 here an just one example from Stevesleds

http://shop.stevesleds.com/SPS-Grade-LED-Retrofit-Kit-Package-10-24-tanks-8794102416.htm

This retrofit kit is designed for use in saltwater aquariums. It includes the essential components necessary for your tank to have 100% LED lighting including the superiorTube-Style heat sinks. It is capable of supporting every fish, coral or invert (including Softies, LPS, SPS, and clams). All kits include the new Luxeon ES series 3 watt LEDs (Yes, they are better than the latest CREE LEDs!)

Total of 14 LEDs - Roughly equivalent to more than 120 watts of Metal Halide light.

This true 42W (63W Extreme SPS) LED system package includes the following items:

7 - Luxeon ES 3 Watt LEDs - Royal Blue

7 - Luxeon ES 3 Watt LEDs - Neutral White

2 - The Single Digital LED drivers (You now have control over Color Temperature!)

2 - Driver Dimming knobs

2 - Dimming Knob Caps

2 - 10" Tubular Aluminum Heatsinks

1 - Switching Power Supply (PSU) 200W, 24V @8.3A

1 - Power supply 18 ga grounded wall plug for power supply

2 - Pressurizing Cooling Fans w/power regulators. (Plugs directly into PSU)

10ft - Solder by the foot

10ft - 20/4 GA wire (PSU to LED Drivers)

10ft - 24 Ga wire (LED Drivers to LEDs)

1 - Thermal Adhesive

1 - Thermal Paste

8 - Stainless Steel Marine Grade #6 screws with Philips head for easy installation

4 - 2" Heatsink Mounting screws for mounting anywhere

2 - Alcohol Pads for LED Cleaning

1 - Downloadable complete step-by-step instruction manual

1 - Much higher reliability and longer lifespan that the "Kessil" systems


This item is in stock and ready to ship in large quantities immediately!

*EXTREME SPS! – 50% MORE LEDs! Optional upgrade description: This option is for serious aquarists only. This option adds 50% MORE LEDs to the kit, and also includes an additional heat sink, fan, wiring, solder, rivets, drivers, dimmer knobs, power supplies, thermal adhesive and thermal paste – absolutely everything necessary to install the additional LEDs! This is an excellent option because you are able to get 50% more light at a discounted rate, versus purchasing the components individually. WARNING: This option may provide too much light for your corals, which could cause them harm, temporary zooxanthellae ejection, or death. You will need to use the dimming functions to acclimate your corals to this extreme intensity of light over the course of 6 weeks or longer. Purchasing this option, in conjunction with running them partially dimmed, is an excellent way to run the LEDs ultra efficiently with minimal heat output, and more light output than our standard SPS kit. Please specify your LED color ratios, additional LED colors, specific heatsink lengths, or any other customizations by clicking on the Customize My Kit option below (typically no extra charge!). This is also an excellent upgrade for non-standard size aquariums, such as aquariums that are custom built, cubes, deeper than 24”, or aquariums that have a distance greater than 20” from front to back.

*99% Completed System! Optional upgrade description: Your LED System will be 100% assembled and tested, effectively reducing the installation time from hours to less than 10 minutes. The only remaining work(1%) left is to use a phillips screwdriver using the included 4 screws and mount the heatsinks to your aquarium hood, no other tools are required. Each unit is proudly manufactured and assembled by a trained and experienced technician using thousands of dollars’ worth of specialty tools and equipment - right here in the USA! We use high quality irreversible Molex locking connectors for a safe and neat installation. Steve’s LEDs uses a $600 specialty machine manufactured by Molex in Sweden, to install each and every wire in each and every plug, ensuring the connection is solid and secure – not cheap $10 crimping pliers like our competitors! Each 99% Completed System pre-assembled kit is fully tested and calibrated for a minimum of 100% rated power to ensure your new LED system is PERFECT. A water splash sheild or aquarium lid is always required with the use of this system, and not included. The price is for the standard LED configuration of Neutral white/Royal Blue listed above (custom LED colors will be extra with the Full Spectrum LED Combination upgrade). This upgrade includes the drivers mounted onto the same heastink as the LEDs for a super-simple installation. Selecting the EXTREME SPS! option will increase the price of the 99% Completed System by 50%. Save time and reduce the risk of having a mishap and order your 99% Completed System above.

*Include Digital Lighting Controller? Includes the Typhon Digital Lighting Controller. LCD display and large buttons make for simple and fast programming silky smooth sunrises and sunsets! Allows your LEDs to dim to any percentage (including completely off to 100%), set any schedule you like - fully adjustable.

CUSTOM LED COMBINATION UPGRADE:

Please be aware that no color combination of LEDs looks "perfect" to everybody. Each of us have different color preferences, and different goals for our aquariums (such as looking great, growing corals fast, focusing on natural coloration or coral iridescence/pop, simulating natural ocean environments, etc) There isnoLED combination where "one size/color combination fits all." You must decide what your goals are and choose accordingly.

*12,000K Super Full Spectrum - This provides you with a proven combination of LEDs to provide Full Spectrum Lighting (Broad Spectrum) to allow your corals to grow up to 2x faster than in the ocean, while not detracting from their natural coloration. This combination emphasizes all common coral colors and iridescence, while significantly reducing nuisance algae growth problems. If you are not sure what color combination to choose, please choose this combination. It has been proven to effectively grow corals in thousands of aquariums worldwide. LEDs included in this selection: 5X 4,000K, 2X Cool Blue, 7X Royal Blue.

*12,000K Full Specturm JMB Special - This is LED combination perfected by Nano-reef.com user JediMasterBen. It It has a very birght, crisp color with a blue tone. The result is excellent pop (iridescence) from flourescent corals, as well as boosting the natural color of nonflourescent corals, sponges, coraline algae and macroalgae. It is the brigthest LED color combination we offer for the Biocube 29 and does not look "green". LEDs included in this selection are 3x 4,000K, 3x Lime, 6x Royal Blue, 2x Cool Blue.

*14,000K Super Full Spectrum - This provides you with a proven combination of LEDs to provide Full Spectrum Lighting (Broad Spectrum) to allow your corals to grow up to 4x faster than in the ocean, while not detracting from their natural coloration. This combination emphasizes all yellow, orange, red, green, blue and purple coral colors and iridescence. It has been proven to effectively grow corals in thousands of aquariums worldwide. LEDs included in this selection: 4X 4,000K, 2X Cool Blue, 8X Royal Blue.

*13,000K Full Specturm JMB Special - This is LED combination perfected by Nano-reef.com user JediMasterBen. It It is birght, with crisp color with a bluer tone than the 12,000K. The result is better pop (iridescence) from flourescent corals, as well as boosting the natural color of nonflourescent corals, sponges, coraline algae and macroalgae. This LED combination does not have any of the bad side effects of using green LEDs, and does not look "green". LEDs included in this selection are 2x 4,000K, 2x Lime, 7x Royal Blue, 3x Cool Blue.

*16,000K Full Spectrum - This provides you with a proven combination of LEDs to provide Full Spectrum Lighting (Broad Spectrum) to allow your corals to grow up to 4x faster than in the ocean. This combination emphasizes fast coral growth and and iridescence (color POP). This provides a rich blue deepwater ocean look. It has been proven to effectively grow corals in thousands of aquariums worldwide. LEDs included in this selection: 3X 4,000K, 3X Cool Blue, 8X Royal Blue.

*Algae Scrubber - This is used exclusively on Algae scrubbers. This combo includes 12X 670-680nm Deep Red and 2X 440nm Royal Blue Luxeon ES LEDs. This packs a punch, and you will be amazing at how much growth you will be removing. You must be sure to clean your screen out weekly at a minimum because this does cause amazing algae growth.

*My Own Custom Combination That I Will Decide upgrade allows you to swap out the standard colored LEDs for any of the other color Luxeon ES LEDs. Although we recommend the standard configuration, it is difficult to find the perfect combination that every customer finds completely aesthetically pleasing. The standard configuration is a product of 4 years of testing and refinement, with proven growth rates exceeding the ocean, and we sell to large coral farmers world-wide in this particular configuration. If there was something better, then that is what would be offered as the new standard kit. The challenge has always been balancing aesthetics with maximum coral growth rates, and there is no perfect solution since every customer has different expectations. This upgrade allows you to select the combination you believe will be best for your aquarium. This upgrade allows you to select the exact color combination you believe will be best for your aquarium.

- We recommend using Lime to bring out red and orange colored corals.

- Royal blues to improve iridescence (color pop) and maximize growth rates.

-Cool blues will improve natural combinations and offsets the yellow color when using lower kelvin (2,700K, 4,000K, 5,000K) full spectrum white LEDs. Use at the rate of 2 per 5 Royal Blues.

-Deep reds are used for growing plants such as macro algae and mangroves that have green and purple chlorophyll – but also promotes nuisance algae growth – so use very sparingly if at all, corals do not use red light for growth since it is the first color absorbed by ocean water. Use at the rate of 1 per 14 other LEDs.

-Use lower Kelvin whites such as 4,000K to provide a full spectrum light for specific species of coral and clams. Use as approximately 30-50% of your total LED quantity.

-Cool Whites are not recommended for marine aquariums that have coral, as they provide very little useful wavelengths. Cool whites are an excellent choice for cichlid, FOWLER, or fish only tanks.

This item is in stock and ready to ship immediately! (Ships same day for standard configuration, custom orders only require 12 hour lead time.)

When adding the upgrade "95% Completed System!," the item "Thermal Adhesive, thermal paste, extra-long rivets" will be deducted from the included item list (because we used it to mount the LEDs to the heatsink) additionally, other items may be consumed and the remaining portion will not be sent in the package. Length tolerances of heat sinks are ± 0.5" and 6” for wire and expandable wire sleeve products. Other items will be added to the kit when selecting the “Plug and Play!” option -such as interconnecting plugs. Exact specifications are subject to change due to constant improvements in this item, every reasonable effort is made to ensure accuracy. Steve's LEDs does not guarantee that this particular light system will be able to grow all of the 5,000+ species of corals within the aquarium trade. The previous sentence is stipulated on the particular recommended kit selected vs standard aquarium dimensions, and growth based on the more popular corals available commercially, however, we have not yet found any specific species of coral that does not grow under this type of LED lighting to date. The more important factor is that there may be too much or not enough light intensity. The item you receive may not look identical to the picture due to continuous improvements to our products. Steve's LEDs, LLC is not responsible for accidental errors, omissions, and/or mistakes anywhere on this website. *Optional Upgrades.
 
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Burcusa

New Member
Hey Everyone,

Thank you so much for the awesome welcome! Wow, there is a lot more to the LEDs than I was anticipating. At first I was mostly confused as to what could go wrong with the cheap ones and I think that the answer is that it just won't give you the type of light that allows for coral to grow well and you would not have the more technical options (day/night reef schedules etc.)

I am convinced. I am a DIY-type person (although, I haven't yet done a lot of DIY stuff with the aquarium yet, but I do plan to). So, I am definitely going to look into those nanoboxes. No one addressed the rapidled.com that I mentioned in the original post, is that because there are better DIY options out there, or is it that it is just not a company folks are familiar with? I ask, as this kit here: http://www.rapidled.com/24-led-plug-n-play-retrofit-kit-dimmable/ seems like it might fit my 40 gal breeder-type tank. Once I add the heat sink and controller it seems to get me where I would want to go for ~$250-300. I still need to look into those nanoboxes though, so I might end up answering my own question.

Anyways, again, thank you. This really helps me plan the map to corals well. Some might be disappointed by the responses, but for me, I just see it as forcing me to focus more time on ensuring the water quality is stable (and good) before putting the more expensive and fragile stuff into the tank. I am in it for the long haul (hopefully), so not a big deal.

As far as the tank thread, I will do that. I have this upper-midwest mindset though where I tend to assume that no one really wants to see my pedestrian set-up that doesn't even have a lot of coralline algae growing yet...
 

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Hey Mike, we always like to see people's aquariums :)

Always get enough fixtures. You'll find most pendant LED fixtures direct light straight down. This means a fixture will cover only about 18 inches or so. If you have a tank that is 24 inches long, you might cover that with one fixture, but if the tank was much longer you usually need 2 or 3 fixtures to get good lighting without dim ends.

This is absolutely true. One of the reasons to go with a quality light from a name brand manufacturer is that they're usually very transparent about how much their light will cover, and what kind of PAR you can expect from it. Kessil does this (just for coverage though, not PAR), as does NanoBox, and so does AI. Always look for lights from manufacturers who are open about how much light their unit produces and how much tank it will cover.

To your question about the LED kit you linked to.. There's nothing wrong with the RapidLED kit, but it uses an older style driver and the older setup of royal blue/cool white LEDs. Again, nothing wrong with that, but $180 is only a so-so deal. The LEDs are very high quality, and as I said above, it's basically what I have over my tank, but if I were buying new, I'd get something a bit more current.

My next light is going to be based on the NanoBox v3 board. The basic idea is that NanoBox uses these boards in their own lights. When you buy one of their lights like the Mini, Duo or Quad, you're essentially getting one (or several) of these boards inside of it with the wiring and drivers are already set up for you. Here's what your part list might look like if you went the DIY route:

- 1x NanoBox v3 board (scroll all the way to the bottom to order. PAR numbers for 1 array can be found here). Cost: $55
- 1x Aqualux Storm controller. Cost: $65
- 3x Meanwell LDD-H1000, 1x Meanwell LDD-H700. Cost: $28 ($7/ea)
- 1x generic 24VDC power supply (5A or greater). Cost: $15 - $30 on Ebay.
- 1x 16"x3.5" aluminum heatsink. Cost: $19
- Miscellaneous, such as thermal paste, wire, solder, etc: $15.

So basically, to get one NanoBox v3 board up and running, you're looking at $212 minus shipping. Add in maybe $20 for shipping, you're looking at $231 total. I'd recommend getting two boards, but everything here will run two boards (maybe even three if you up the power supply size and get a longer heatsink). But, you can start out with one board and add the other later simply by wiring it up to the existing drivers.

This is just personally the way I would go (and plan to go when I get sick of my AI Sol). It should be said that this route takes a bit of research, but you're getting a superb quality, up-to-date and controller-enabled light for < $300. The offerings from Kessil and AI in particular are very high quality as well, and both would probably also give you great performance. They cost a bit more, but they're already built for you so you're saving your own time (which remember, is worth something as well).

Hope this helps! Let us know if we can do anything else!
 

dacianb

Active Member
To understand a bit...
- difference between bare leds no name and a decent name = 2, 3 x on price. Use top leds and difference will be higher.
- binned LEDs compared with unbinned leds (from same manufacturer) = another 2, 3 x price
- high CRI vs low CRI white leds (same manufacturer and led type ) - around 1.5 -2 X on price
- simple fan - can be a factor of 10X on prices between lazy noisy and ultra silent ones...
- type and quality of electronics - huge difference
- protections the lights have - over temperature, shorts, etc - can build up a lot the price
- use of good quality heatsinks or just a metal sheet to cool the leds (temperature will dramatically influence the efficiency, lifetime, spectrum and basically highest current you can drive leds)
- stupid connectors - ones which will survive long in a salty environment are more expensive than regular ones...
- coating / painting of metal components to not rust in time....

and list go on and on ... everything build up cost and of course price.

And dont expect that ebay lights with 100W to do the same as a higher brand product at same 100W.
A led can have easily 2-4X more output / W than other LED, just depending by small details which are ignored by most of people.

I am a maniac DIYer and tested each and single components I used in my lights in all imaginable conditions :celebrate:. I ended up with a different approach of lighting system, not cheap, but I wouldn't replace it for a top brand product.
In the end depend what you need and what are your expectations. But will have what you pay for.
 

StevesLEDs

RS Sponsor
I made some responses/comments in Blue following the question.

- difference between bare leds no name and a decent name = 2, 3 x on price. Use top [quality] leds and difference will be higher. PAR output is the biggest, for example, take two 3W LEDs. One chinese and one Luxeon ES. They will both consume the same amount of electricity, but the Luxeon ES LED will output 3X the PAR levels, so you need less of the Luxeon ES LEDs, making it a more cost effective solution. Furthermore, no-name LEDs get a consistent 2 year lifespan, whereas we have had the Luxeon ES LEDs running in several applications 24/7 for the past 7 years, and we expect them to last about 15+ years.

- binned LEDs compared with unbinned leds (from same manufacturer) = another 2, 3 x price Again, this has to do with ensuring you are getting the most energy efficient LED, with the brightest output, and ensures you get the specific wavelength you are wanting. Unbinned LED are a crap shoot, and you are absolutely certain to get the bottom of the barrel LEDs since the reseller knows he can't get hardly anything for them because the specs are so embarassingly low.

- high CRI vs low CRI white leds (same manufacturer and led type ) - around 1.5 -2 X on price CRI is how similar the white LEDs are compared to the sun, thus resulting in how "natural" your corals look. Frankly, this matters the least since many of us like our corals popping like crazy with iridescence (low CRI). Unless you have bunch of non-iridescing corals and sponges, it is best to pretty much disregard CRI for marine aquariums. So skimping on high CRI LEDs is favorable.

- simple fan - can be a factor of 10X on prices between lazy noisy and ultra silent ones... This has to do with efficiency, noise, and lifespan and effects the lifespan of the LEDs as well. Think of this as the radiator in your car, if it fails or doesn't work right to begin with, it could cause the entire LED system to fail prematurely or function sub-level. The hotter an LED runs, the quicker it will die, and less light it outputs.

- type and quality of electronics - huge difference Using Made in America and Japanese components are the highest quality in the world. Using higher quality components will get you a long lasting system. Cheap electronics can't regulate power as well, guaranteeing you premature failure of the LEDs, it's just a matter of time.

- protections the lights have - over temperature, shorts, etc - can build up a lot the price The right electronics will have this protection built in. Using a very inexpensive external $3.50 thermal switch can save a multithousand dollar LED system. http://shop.stevesleds.com/Thermal-Switch-Overheating-Protection-8794102497.htm . Most quality electronics have all the other necessary (and legally required) protections in place. Many "budget" chinese components have none of these built in, and could create a fire risk.

- use of good quality heatsinks or just a metal sheet to cool the leds (temperature will dramatically influence the efficiency, lifetime, spectrum and basically highest current you can drive leds) Plain and simple, keeping the LEDs cool leads to their proper operation in all aspects and allows them to achieve their proper life span. A suitable heatsink will be something that gets the job done with a reasonable safety factor and fit in the space allotment you have all at a very fair price - exactly why Steve's LEDs uses the highest quality pressurizing fan with tube heatsink - it does the job impressively well, and is very inexpensive, and fits pretty much in all aquariums.

- stupid connectors - ones which will survive long in a salty environment are more expensive than regular ones... Marine rated connectors are not required. If you have connectors being submerged or splashed or salt creeped, then you have other problems that need to be addressed first prior to installing an LED system. This is another suitable place to skimp.

- coating / painting of metal components to not rust in time... Using a marine grade aluminum allow is the most cost effective solution to this, no paining required.

Hope that helps?
Jeff
 

Vikavolt

New Member
Hi,

and I don't think the difference of price determines the quality of performance. I won't use gimmic products. I value performance over money. I don't mind sparing more money on a product that values what I spend. All in all, $100 would be enough for LED with good performance if you find a trustworthy dealer. The functionality should be good; if you want fair aesthetics, you should raise your budget.
 
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cpage101

New Member
I have been running the 16" timer model SB reef light for a year now I have had great growth on sps, lps and softies. Not a $700.00 fixture but it performs great
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Uncle99

Well-Known Member
My cheap LED still go strong into their third year so far. I agree they are cheap but grows everything in my tank including SPS, clams and a nem.

Proof in the pudding so to speak.

But they don’t allow access the each light channel ( for me a good thing cause I don’t know anything about what % in what colour is best)

So no special effects or individual control.

Not bad for 100, quality of build was exceptional
Quietest fan I have ever heard, in fact I can’t hear it at all

Sometimes I wonder if my DT would be different enough to justify the 6x the cost for premium lights, until these crap out, I will not know.

I also said I will never use an ATO or doser, and here I was clearly wrong

EAEF3750-56CB-4FD2-A740-8F7E09758FB2.jpeg
 
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